How to Create Cash Flow & Cutting Costs On a Home Renovation

David:
That is the BiggerPockets Podcast Present 744. I’d moderately see you purchase a 5, two and a half or a 5, three and hire the rooms out individually. I’d moderately see you purchase a small house complicated of seven to eight items and hire that out than simply go purchase a 3, two, particularly if new building.
If you happen to’re on this costly market in Colorado, you may’t go purchase a brand new building residence, pay market value and attempt to make that work as a rental. You’re going to lose cash. You bought to do one thing extra artistic.
You bought to discover a property that has sq. footage that may be added, sq. footage that may be transformed to get three items out of 1 unit. You bought to attempt so much tougher to make these items work and at the moment’s market than earlier than. I believe you’re most likely seeing that.
What’s occurring everybody? That is David Greene, your host of the most important, the baddest, the very best actual property investing podcast on the planet, BiggerPockets. We’re right here at the moment with a Seeing Greene episode the place I share my perception and data on questions that you just, our listeners, ask.
One of many solely podcasts the place you, the listener, will get concerned within the present. If you happen to’d prefer to be on the present or have your query answered, go to biggerpockets.com/david the place you may submit your questions there.
At the moment’s present is superior. We get into is New Building: The Path for RE in 2023. How ought to LLCs be structured? Do you want one LLC or a number of, when you’ve got multiple property? When a contractor’s bid comes into excessive and the deal doesn’t work, what might be achieved in addition to a really prolonged and detailed reply from me on learn how to construct, develop, and evolve methods in your online business that will help you?
Be sure to stick round all the way in which to the top as a result of that’s a very good query that’s requested, and I put loads of effort within the reply and I’m excited so that you can hear it. Earlier than we get into the present, I’ve acquired a fast tip for all of you.
Vet your group to ensure they know a large swath of data of their business and never only one piece of it. So usually, individuals go to a lender at Wells Fargo or Chase Financial institution or an insurance coverage individual they discovered on-line they usually say, “I would like one thing for my rental property enterprise, for my actual property investing enterprise.”
The individual goes, “Oh, that is what we do.” They’re like, “What about this? What about that?” “I don’t know. I don’t know that.” Remind of that scene in Meet the Dad and mom the place he desires a pleasant bottle of wine to take to his in-law’s home as a result of he’s assembly him for the primary time and he says, “What’s your costliest bottle?”
The man says, “Mums, it’s like a $5 bottle of wine.” He goes, “Nicely, do you have got something dearer?” The man says, “Nicely, you can purchase loads of Mums.” That’s the way you get loads of feedback from a mortgage officer, a insurance coverage dealer, an actual property agent, a building individual, a handyman, they’re all over the place.
They don’t research the enterprise that they’re moving into and people should not the individuals you wish to work with. That is why I begin corporations and educate my workers in order that they’ve a variety of data for various loans, completely different situations that may work.
I don’t wish to say loopholes, however completely different ways in which we are able to get you financing the place different lenders say, I don’t know the way to do this. I’m simply giving up. We don’t search for that. Ask loads of questions of the individual you’re working with. If they will’t reply them, they don’t know the way the business works, that’s not the individual you wish to discuss to.
You may additionally use a BiggerPockets agent finder to search out an agent in your space that may be a BiggerPockets member. Use the identical course of with them. Don’t assume simply because they’re on BiggerPockets, in the event that they’re an excellent agent. They may have by no means bought a home or they may have solely bought new building houses they usually’ve acquired 75 homes bought on their resume, however none of them are a resale.
You wish to be sure the individual you’re working with has a large diploma of data. That was not a really fast, fast tip. That was truly a really lengthy fast tip, but it surely was crucial. I hope that you just all heard it and take it significantly.
All proper. Let’s get into at the moment’s present.

Jordan:
How’s it going David Greene? My identify is Jordan Ray. I’m truly an area actual property investor within the Memphis, Tennessee market. I personal an actual property firm that I began earlier this yr with the concept, after all, to interchange my earnings and stroll away from being a truck driver, which is what I’m in proper now. I’m in my truck.
I take pleasure in truck driving, however I additionally take pleasure in actual property and I additionally take pleasure in my household and I would love to have the ability to spend extra time with my household and in addition construct a generational wealth. After all, like most individuals do after they get into actual property.
My few questions that I’ve, simply two questions. First query, I wish to know when you have got a number of properties … I’ve one proper now. It’s a money cow by the way in which. However after I get one other one, after I’m making an attempt to determine is that if I ought to put it in my LLC, then I at present have the primary property in or ought to I get one other LLC?
The way you go about doing that, as a result of to me having a number of LLC looks like loads of work so far as taxes go. Nicely, I love to do my very own taxes. I’m actually good at doing my very own taxes. I’m actually going to due diligence, so I choose to stay that means till it turns into an excessive amount of to deal with. Proper now, one property, possibly two properties, I really feel just like the taxes should not going to be difficult in any respect.
My second query can be, do you wholesale and should you wholesale or if you recognize who wholesales what their favourite means or your favourite technique to market to get leads is? I at present have been doing loads of chilly calling and postcards and I’m truly about to begin making an attempt Fb advertisements.
As a result of truthfully, the chilly calling simply isn’t working. Postcards are working. I’m getting calls again. However I haven’t essentially generated any leads but. I’ve been on and off making an attempt to wholesale now for about six months, haven’t closed a deal but.
I’ve gotten fairly a number of of them beneath contract. At first I used to be good at getting properties beneath contract after which it flipped round after which acquired good find money patrons however not getting one beneath contract. I’m making an attempt to dial this right down to combining it, too, and I really feel like I’m getting fairly shut. However I simply needed to know your opinion on that.
Yeah. I admire all of your assist should you might can reply my questions. I actually sit up for seeing my video in your BiggerPockets Podcast. Thanks on your time and have an ideal one.

David:
All proper. Jordan, thanks on your query. I can reply the second half actually fast. I don’t wholesale. I don’t do this. I’m not going to say it’s immoral. However in generalized, don’t just like the mannequin. It’s skirting strains of legalities. It’s hardly ever useful for the vendor of the property.
Wholesalers will at all times inform you that they’re engaged on a deal. It’s win-win. Typically I do assume that occurs. However the majority of the time I believe that the vendor would make much more cash in the event that they put their home on the MLS the place everyone might see the property and different buyers would have entry to extra stock versus after they simply promote it to a purchaser’s listing and a man like me will get immediate entry to these properties that I purchase all of them and your regular buyers simply don’t get to see them.
I’m probably not an enormous fan of the wholesale mannequin. The individuals who come to me that wish to make cash in actual property, I’d moderately promote their home for them and get them as a lot cash as I might, then simply get them a fast sale and a few buyers going to make cash.
Now, the primary a part of your query I can tackle right here. Do you utilize an LLC per property or one LLC for all properties? It is a good query as a result of not many individuals perceive the complexities of the LLCs. It’s sometimes regarded like an LLC is safer, so simply personal your property there. It’s difficult and it’s not at all times safer. Okay.
I’ve loads of LLCs. I sometimes have a number of properties per LLC, but it surely turns into a headache to attempt to hold these all collectively. I pay 75 grand a yr to CPAs to attempt to straighten all of it out. It’s horrible. Me alone and paying somebody’s full-time wage, which I suppose if I give it some thought, I’d be higher off to rent a CPA who simply was my full-time worker than pay that possibly I must look into it.
However what I’m getting at right here is CPAs are onerous. They’re costly. They’re onerous to handle. It’s a must to file with them each single yr. There’s so much that goes into this. Don’t simply assume the LLCs are a magic tablet goes to resolve your entire drawback on your properties.
What you wish to attempt to do is mitigate how a lot fairness is in anybody particular person LLC. You don’t wish to have 4 properties fully paid off in money in a single, after which different LLCs the place properties are leveraged at 80%. You wish to break up it out so every LLC has a restricted quantity of fairness.
As a result of in case you are sued, they’re going to go after the fairness within the LLC, which is why you don’t need it multi function. Hope that helps together with your query. Thanks on your service. Carry on holding on, and I hope that you just discover a technique to get out of the truck driving job and right into a job you want extra.
All proper, our subsequent query comes from Kenny McGregor in Las Vegas. I’m an energetic responsibility army. Once I acquired to Las Vegas, I purchased a small apartment with a standard mortgage whereas I constructed my first residence with a VA mortgage. Now three years later, I’ve gotten my actual property license and determined to promote the apartment, which I 1031 Change into two extra rental properties and recouped my preliminary funding.
Subsequent, I bought my major. Now I’m residing at my pal’s home and want to purchase one other place. My query is, on this market, what number of properties ought to I’m going for? I can reuse my zero down VA mortgage, which is a superb profit, about 120,000 within the financial institution. However many of the offers I’m working within the native space with zero down and my present rates of interest go away no money stream.
So price doing. Ought to I purchase a fourth property as properly or await the market to settle a bit extra? Thanks.
Okay. It is a actually good query. First off, I’d say, No-brainer. Use your VA mortgage with zero right down to get your self right into a home. Really you can have your individual residence. You may spend a bit of bit of cash. You may come out of pocket some.
However that’s okay, as a result of proudly owning actual property over the long run is price. If it’s a must to lose cash for a pair years simply to have a spot to dwell, it’s nonetheless means cheaper than paying hire or proudly owning your property. That’s a no brainer. You’ll want to purchase a home to dwell it as a major together with your VA mortgage.
Now, the remainder of the cash that you’ve, $120,000, I don’t assume you must ask the query of “What number of homes ought to I purchase?” The precise query is, “What’s one of the simplest ways to deploy $120,000 into actual property?”
Now, there is no such thing as a rush. That’s what’s superior about this. You don’t need to go put that cash into play. For years earlier than costs had been going up, rents had been going up. You had it to drag your capital due to inflation. There was loads of stress on us. That’s been briefly slowed as charges have gone up.
There isn’t as a lot stress on you to go make investments that cash. I’d settle in and I’d wait. However I wouldn’t await the market to tank. I simply await the best deal to cross your path. If you happen to’re telling me that present rates of interest go away no money stream, you bought to take a look at completely different properties or completely different methods.
Possibly you’re two items, it is advisable to have a look at three items. Possibly you’re single household houses and it is advisable to purchase a home that has an ADU or two ADUs. There’s a technique to make properties money stream. Possibly you’re going to have to purchase a property and Airbnb the principle home and dwell within the ADU your self.
There’s completely different artistic methods you could have a look at this. However my recommendation to you’d be don’t simply go cookie-cutter, “Oh, properly, what labored earlier than goes to work now.” Once you purchased that apartment, it was a special market. You may get money stream, you bought appreciation. It’s a tougher market now.
Mix taking your time with offers creatively. When the best one comes alongside, bounce on it, however don’t really feel stress to leap on it earlier than that. I don’t assume that something’s going to show round anytime quickly to the place you’re going to overlook out should you don’t purchase a home tomorrow.
All proper. From Sayli in Hayward. We’re getting loads of Hayward individuals coming in right here. I at all times discuss in regards to the crimson chilies, a restaurant in Hayward on mission that I like. We’re getting lots of people from there. That’s cool. If you happen to’re within the Bay Space, should you’re in California in any respect, attain out to us. I’d love to speak with you. I’d like to get to know you higher as a result of these are my stomping grounds. All proper. Let’s see what Sayli has to say.

Sayli:
Hello, David. Thanks for listening to my query. My identify is Sayli. I’m from Hayward, California. I’ve been investing in Michigan for previous three and a half years. My query is concerning lengthy distance rehab venture.
Final month I bought my seventh single household rental in Michigan. It’s my second BUR venture. I acquired bids from 4 completely different normal contractors. All of them are very well-known and well-recommended on native FP teams. I’ve labored with two of them, two GCs on my earlier initiatives. I’ve some expertise with them.
It is a typical renovation venture, a dated home that wants an uplift, flooring, paint, lavatory, refresh, lighting fixtures, HVAC, et cetera. I’ve been listening to different buyers on podcasts and YouTubes. They do that rehab beneath 30K, 35K, however I budgeted about 45,000. The bids I acquired from GCs are 70K and about.
My query is how can I minimize value with out compromising high quality? I take satisfaction in offering high quality merchandise to my tenants. However 70K rehab value is simply too excessive to justify the hire. Any phrase of recommendation? Thanks for that and thanks for taking my name.

David:
All proper. Sayli, it is a actually good query. Once you’re in a scenario like this the place it’s a must to minimize prices however you don’t wish to minimize high quality, you’re going to have to present in someplace.
Now for you that will be managing the venture your self. Once you work by means of a normal contractor, you’re paying the contractor to mainly handle the venture and discover the subs. They’re not at all times doing the work themselves. You pay them a sure amount of cash to do the plumbing.
They go discover a plumber that does the work for lower than they acquired paid they usually hold the distinction. In a way, they’re a venture supervisor who has the items which might be wanted. If you wish to minimize them out of the deal and the GCs are all providing you with bids of 70,000, however you assume it may be achieved for 45,000, you’re going to need to go discover the subcontractors your self.
You’re going to need to go discover the plumbers, the painters, a handyman that may do the renovation stuff like the toilet lighting fixtures, the HVAC. If you happen to discover these individuals yourselves, you are able to do this. I simply wish to warning you, it’s trickier than you assume. That is why most individuals use a normal contractor.
If you happen to go on the market and attempt to discover these individuals yourselves, they may deceive you. They may take your cash and never end the job. That is the issue that you just’re going to get caught in. A method that I mitigate that threat is I pay them after the job is finished or possibly I pay them a 3rd of the cash that they’re asking for after which I pay them the remainder after I confirm the work’s full.
However once more, they may inform you the work’s full. You’re going to need to ship an impartial individual there to ensure that HVAC labored to ensure the paint was achieved to ensure issues are achieved to your liking, particularly if these are out of state, that would get tough.
Your solely different possibility I might consider is should you might discover an individual who lives in a space the place wages are decrease and fly them into that space to do the work. Now the issue is Detroit, Michigan’s probably not like Malibu right here. Okay. This isn’t Beverly Hills. The individuals there already aren’t making a ton of cash on the wages. That $70,000 quote may be simply the going charge for what this work goes to be.
The one different factor I can assume to say is after I get in these conditions, I search for methods to chop prices within the areas which might be least more likely to have an effect on the deal. You most likely don’t wish to minimize the paint since you get loads of bang on your buck on that.
You most likely don’t wish to minimize the sunshine fixtures as a result of these are comparatively low cost. However among the different stuff that you just’re speaking about, possibly the flooring, possibly you allow the flooring in there. You set a less expensive flooring although what you had been pondering, as a result of that’s costly, each the supplies and in labor.
The lavatory refresh, possibly you don’t improve the toilet, you simply improve the sunshine fixtures. Possibly you simply make what you have already got nicer and so that you do much less work to make up among the work within the finances there. Which may find yourself being your only option. Thanks for the video. Hold representing Hayward and let me know the way it goes.
All proper. At this stage of the present, I wish to just remember to guys all like, remark, and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Particularly remark, I wish to know, what do you consider the present to date? Do you just like the Seeing Greene episodes?
We’re going to take a minute to learn some feedback from earlier episodes that you just, our listeners, have left. You may see what different individuals assume.
From Shaka Increase 01. “David, I like your present. However phrases I hear an excessive amount of in your present are one duplex and two duplex. One thing I by no means hear you speak about is shopping for land and constructing. I’d love to listen to your ideas on investing in land and constructing the best single household residence with ADU, which I’m going to do. I do know it’ll be loads of work/studying, however I believe the result may very well be nice.”
Nicely, Shaka Increase, the explanation I don’t speak about that so much is I’ve by no means achieved it and I attempt to keep away from issues that I don’t perceive. It’s extremely difficult in comparison with simply shopping for a home that already exists.
We simply heard our earlier query about learn how to handle a contractor, and we noticed how that may get out of hand the place the bids get too excessive. It will get even worse once you’re constructing it from the bottom up. Tons of issues go fallacious you weren’t anticipating.
You’re borrowing cash from banks the place they’re anticipating work to be achieved. You’re working by means of permits. There’s so many transferring items right here. It may very well be very straightforward for this to take means too lengthy and lose some huge cash.
Now, I’m not going to discourage you from doing it as a result of should you’ve already determined you’re going to do it, I’m assuming you’ve acquired some coaching, some experience, some background on this space that makes you assume that you are able to do this higher.
However for those who are getting began investing in actual property or have a small portfolio and wish to develop it, the common listener that now we have on this present, the avatar individual that’s listening, this might completely bankrupt them financially.
I do know lots of people that attempted to construct spec homes and misplaced some huge cash, together with some members of the family of mine. That’s why I don’t speak about it as usually. But when you recognize what you’re doing, you may make cash in actual property in each means.
All proper. Our subsequent remark comes from Rubai Khan. “The place would David Greene dwell if he ever left California?” Ooh, that is actually good. I’ve loved my time in Florida. I’ve been visiting South Florida to take a look at among the initiatives I’ve occurring down there. I don’t assume I might dwell in southern California as a result of I simply can’t stand site visitors and issues transferring gradual and it’s all over the place.
I loved visiting the Smoky Mountains. Oh, I do know, most likely be Scottsdale. I actually like after I go to Scottsdale. I like the warmth, particularly the dry warmth. Warmth doesn’t hassle me. I’m going working when it’s 100 levels, mountain climbing when it’s over 100 levels on a regular basis. I find it irresistible.
I can’t do chilly. I’ve chilly air-induced bronchial asthma that occurs after I train. My windpipe freezes up. It’s actually onerous to breathe. I can’t stand it and simply being chilly sucks. I’d undoubtedly dwell someplace the place there was solar and I’d most likely trip to Hawaii so much.
All proper. Our subsequent remark comes from Haggy 2013. “Thanks for outlining movies. They’re straightforward to navigate, and for that I’ll give 10 likes.” Yeah. Shout out to Nate Weintraub and our manufacturing group who assist you recognize what subjects we cowl by including within the little breaks on the YouTube timeline there. They acquired to sit down there and do loads of work. Thanks guys for doing that.
Our final remark comes from Unio Brainwave Music App who says, “At the moment is a really lonely day for some motive. To counter that, I’m saying good day to as many individuals that learn this put up. Hey. I hope you all have a greater day than the way it began, even when it began rather well.”
Nicely, should you guys are additionally feeling lonely, it may be that you just want some neighborhood in your life. At BiggerPockets, we’re right here to supply that. Take a look at our web site, biggerpockets.com the place now we have a discussion board the place a number of individuals reply questions and ask their questions in addition to meetups in your space that put up on the web site. Go meet another buyers and become involved in a neighborhood.
All proper. We love and we admire all of your engagement, so please proceed that. Go away me some feedback on at the moment’s present to let me know what you consider how we’re doing right here. Keep in mind, if you wish to be featured on the present, you may go to biggerpockets.com/david and submit your query to be placed on the present.
All proper. Our subsequent query is a video from Liam Quintana.

Liam:
How’s it going? All proper. My identify is Liam from New Orleans. All proper. I personal a building firm. My query for you is I wish to BUR new building. I’m in a position to construct homes, duplexes, single households for lots cheaper than what they promote for available on the market although the market [inaudible 00:19:34].
However I wish to construct a duplex, run it out, do a cash-out refi, take the cash out and construct one other one. This methodology permits me to by no means run out of cash. If I take the liquid that I’ve now and simply put down funds on a bunch of leases, I’d ultimately lose cash. What do you consider BURing new building?

David:
All proper. Nicely, Liam, that’s how the BUR methodology works. The one factor that’s completely different is you’re speaking about constructing as a substitute of shopping for and rehabbing. This might be construct, rehab, hire, refinance, repeat, which is form of humorous. It’s a bit of bit completely different there.
I’m not going to discourage you. I’m simply going to say you bought to know how the constructing course of works. Whether it is true you could construct a brand new property for considerably lower than what persons are prepared to promote them for, this may be a brand new wave with actual property investing.
If sellers are simply not prepared to drop their value and sufficient new properties are constructed and promote for lower than what the present stock is, that will drive comps to come back down and it could assist the market right. The issue is I simply don’t see sufficient buyers studying learn how to construct and changing into proficient at doing that within the time period that we would wish to push costs to come back down.
However should you’ve acquired some background, should you’ve acquired it in with a house builder, I believe this may very well be cool. Simply be sure you know what you’re moving into. Okay. There’s a time that I regarded into doing the identical factor. I used to be going to construct a bunch of properties in Jacksonville, Florida that had been fourplexes.
I had the land picked out. I had the builder. I had loads of conversations. I spotted, thank God earlier than we acquired into the venture, that the zoning would solely permit us to construct one door per like sq. mile. I used to be looking to buy 10 sq. miles of land. I might solely put 10 homes, however I had deliberate on constructing 50.
I used to be going to do what you’re doing. I used to be going to construct two or three, fourplexes, refinance them out as soon as they had been appraised, put that very same cash into the subsequent 4 and simply construct my very own subdivision of fourplexes and have my very own rental neighborhood form of like house complexes.
Then I discovered on the final minute zoning was not going to permit me to do this. That’s what scares me. There’s loads of little issues that may pop up like that you just don’t understand once you don’t construct usually and you may run out of cash very simply.
I’d undoubtedly advocate speaking with a house builder who has achieved this many instances earlier than that may information you thru the method earlier than you decide to doing this new residence building.
All proper. Our subsequent query comes from Paul in Utah. Paul says, I put money into Kansas and I at present have seven doorways from a triplex and a 4 single household houses. I’m a long-term purchase and maintain investor and I plan to get 10 to 12 doorways complete.
Once I was getting insurance coverage arrange on my most up-to-date rental property, the individual I used to be on the telephone with talked about that I’m attending to the purpose the place it may very well be a greater choice to get a business insurance coverage coverage for all my properties than particular person properties on each.
I haven’t actually heard this earlier than and I hoped to get the David Greene and BiggerPockets ideas on this. What execs and cons ought to I pay attention to? Any corporations that I ought to attain out to or keep away from? I referred to as one native insurance coverage dealer they usually appear fairly confused after I was asking about this.
It’s so humorous you say this as a result of I’m within the strategy of launching an insurance coverage firm proper now. I consider we’re going to name it full guard insurance coverage and it’s going to be offering insurance coverage to landlords.
Now, I’ve run into a pair points the place I’ve had pipes break. Once I was in the midst of building, points with short-term leases. I purchased property and it seems the quote I used to be given from the insurance coverage firm ended up being means decrease than what they quoted me as soon as the property was bought and it ticks me off, and that’s after I go begin companies.
In a pair months, I’ll most likely have much more data to present you about this as soon as I’ve dove into that enterprise. Now, it doesn’t get talked about so much, so I can’t provide you with a ton of details about this.
What I can say is that this isn’t a foul thought. If you may get one coverage that may cowl every little thing, I believe that’s good. So far as the native insurance coverage dealer … You simply referred to as the fallacious one. If you happen to name and also you ask about it they usually say, “I don’t know what you’re speaking about,” name another person. Hold calling till you discover an individual that both is aware of or they are saying, “Oh, yeah. We don’t do this. However right here’s why.” They will educate you on the method.
Guys, basically, once you’re looking for an insurance coverage dealer, a mortgage dealer, an actual property agent and building individual, no matter it’s, should you ask them questions they usually don’t know, that normally means it doesn’t fall inside their particular wheelhouse they usually simply do the identical issues on a regular basis and nobody’s good at one thing that they don’t do so much.
You don’t go ask knowledgeable skateboarder about snowboarding as a result of they don’t do this. They skateboard. They’re going to need to be taught the onerous means learn how to be good at snowboarding. You wish to rent them to be a coach simply because they will skateboard.
You’ll want to take individuals the identical means. If you happen to’re reaching out to somebody on my group, should you’re reaching out to somebody on BiggerPockets, should you’re reaching out to somebody {that a} pal referred you to, ask loads of questions and ensure that they’re assured and competent in the way in which that they reply these questions.
They need to have a variety of data or not less than the dealer they work for ought to have that. It’s an enormous crimson flag should you ask your lender a couple of DSCR mortgage, a bridge mortgage, a HELOC, any of those different mortgage merchandise, and all that they will say to you is “We simply do typical. I don’t know.”
Get away from that individual. That’s not the individual that you wish to be overseeing, managing, directing, guiding you in your journey. You want an individual that’s conversant in these merchandise and may inform you which one works finest for you, which is how I attempt to practice my workers and what I search for in several brokers that I may be working with.
Our subsequent query comes from Kayla, Kayla Wright in Nashville. Hello David. Thanks for studying my query. I’m a contract marketer who just lately began working straight with the actual property investor who has acquired 76 doorways within the Nashville space since 2020.
In alternate from my advertising providers, I obtained a 5% payout of complete earnings on the flip property facet of the enterprise, which is a brand new enterprise on high of the multifamily rental, which is 76 doorways. This has been an ideal alternative for me to be taught the actual property panorama, set objectives for myself for my very own actual property journey, and construct a robust relationship with the investor.
My investor accomplice has additionally agreed to supply an additional 5%, so 10% complete, of earnings on flips if I discover the properties myself and convey them to him. For added context, I work full-time in one other job and I’m hoping this chance will assist begin my journey as an entrepreneur.
My query for you as an investor is what can I be engaged on apart from training that will likely be useful to my investor accomplice as one of many first workers? In what methods can I actually assist him ramp up his flip enterprise and stand out? I’m at present engaged on the web site, however he’s expressed curiosity in my serving to with different investor relations and different sides of the enterprise as properly.
The podcast has helped me immensely. Thanks once more. What an superior query. I like this, Kayla. All proper. I used to be pondering after I first began listening to this that I used to be going to present you some warnings about what to keep away from. However I don’t know that that’s vital.
You’re asking a very good query. What can I do to assist this individual with extra? Guys, that is truthfully the way you’re going to find out about actual property investing. It’s not by discovering a mentor who’s simply going to show you stuff. It’s about discovering an individual you could deliver worth to and assist them, and also you be taught from the expertise of doing it for them.
Okay. That’s what you’re actually on the lookout for. Not how does somebody educate me learn how to promote homes. You go discover an agent that already is aware of learn how to promote homes and also you do all of the work for them that they don’t wish to do, and also you be taught from doing the work. That’s one of the simplest ways to be taught something is from truly doing it.
Engaged on the web site, that’s an ideal thought. My guess is that they have a look at you want a marketer. They’re pondering of selling stuff that you can do. However what when you’ve got extra expertise than simply advertising? Okay. Do you have got bookkeeping expertise? Do you have got venture administration expertise?
Are you able to be taught what their workflow is and assist them by calling the completely different individuals which might be speculated to be doing stuff and ensuring these individuals did what they had been speculated to do, in addition to asking these individuals, what do it is advisable to assist do your job higher and discovering methods to resolve that?
Many instances individuals like me which might be managing loads of stuff, give an order or an edict, I need you to go do X. Then X one way or the other falls by the wayside, and I don’t even assume to go test in on that until two months later after I wanted it achieved and I say, “The place’s X?” They’re like, “Oh, it’s midway achieved.” This occurs on a regular basis. I don’t have lots of people in my corporations that take duty for ensuring the stuff will get achieved.
If you happen to may very well be that individual, you can do something. If you happen to might simply be taught to be organized, should you might be taught to do observe up, should you might create a to-do listing of every little thing that individual has, make your self their private assistant after which observe up to ensure everybody’s doing issues and ask that individual loads of questions, you’ll be taught a ton.
I’ve this mannequin that I educate the brand new individuals the place think about water falling right into a bucket. Okay. The water that falls into the bucket is the stuff that must be achieved on the job, and the bucket is the individual. As that bucket fills up with water, they’ve duties that they should full.
Their job is to get the duty achieved, which is draining the bucket earlier than the bucket overflows, which is that they ran out of time they usually fell behind on stuff. Okay. A method that we assistance is we put a gap within the backside of the bucket the place water drains. An individual beneath them, which may very well be you, which is one other bucket that catches all of the stuff that comes down.
The advantage of that’s the one that’s doing the preliminary work the place all of the water’s coming down, they’re getting all the training. However should you can put your self beneath them, should you can take over among the tasks and do the work, you profit from the identical studying that they don’t want anymore.
One thing they already know learn how to do is available in. They cross it right down to you. You do it for them. They didn’t must be taught. They already know. However they nonetheless get the good thing about it getting achieved. You get the good thing about the training and it turns into a mutually useful relationship.
My finest recommendation when anybody is in your place is to stop working away from duty. Stop actual property as a factor you are able to do so that you don’t need to be accountable. You don’t need to develop. You don’t need to be taught new expertise. Welcome duty. Run two duty.
Soar in and say, “I wish to do as many issues as I can for this individual as doable,” and solely decide to the stuff that you’re prepared to be accountable for the result for. If you happen to do an excellent job with little, you may be given extra and that is the way you’re going to be taught. Nice query.

Marc:
Hey David. I acquired a query for you. My identify is Marc Irvison. I’m an agent/investor right here in Northern Colorado. Moved right here a couple of yr and a half in the past. Purchased a brand new building residence. Ever since then I’ve been ringing out on VRBO three to 4 nights a month.
After two years of doing this, I’ll be capable to offset many of the mortgage come subsequent yr throughout tax time. My DTI goes to enhance most likely about 1,000 a month, and so I’ll be seeking to purchase once more. I began actually late in 2021. That’s why the DTI isn’t going to go up as a lot as if I had rented it out. You already know what I imply? Two years full-time. However it’s what it’s. I’ll get 1,000 bucks additional on my DTI subsequent yr. I’ll be seeking to transfer once more.
The subsequent one, since my first lung was on a VA, subsequent one I suppose will likely be FHA. However my query is, if I’m ultimately making an attempt to get out of the rat race and get out of the W2 job, how do I make that occur on this Colorado market the way in which it’s with common costs being a 450 to 500, except we see some form of actual property crash or one thing like that, which even then I doubt costs are going to go down right here that a lot.
The one thought I’ve had is that to go forward and begin shopping for in Greeley, Colorado. The problem there’s that I work at Broomfield. That’s most likely about an hour commute. Do I simply chunk the bullet and drive an hour or two from work so I should buy duplex in Greeley for say 475, 500?
Or do I proceed buying single household houses the place you may get a brand new building three, two, no basement for, say, 425 down, near Brighton or close to Firestone, one thing like that? Do I deal with duplexes up in Greeley or do I deal with single household residence nearer to Broomfield? In all probability the place there’s, I’d say, extra demand.
Like I mentioned, I’m ultimately making an attempt to get out of the rat race to get out of a W2 job. I’m simply making an attempt to determine that out. Like I mentioned, this market’s means completely different. I come from Hamilton, Ohio the place my first home was 9,000 bucks and I put 25 into it, had 30 all in. I finally paid all of it off, had my home free and clear.
Out right here 30,000 bucks. That wouldn’t even get you a shed. I imply, it’d get you want a 50-year-old rundown trailer, however that’s it. Nothing that’s even near even me inhabitable. That is completely different out right here on this market. I’m making an attempt to adapt and do what I can.
Simply assist me out, man. Admire your service as a cop and I’ll sit up for what it’s a must to say. All proper. Thanks, man. Bye.

David:
All proper. Thanks, Marc, on your query. That is some great things right here. First off, I believe you’re most likely realizing the fact is getting out of the rat race goes to be tougher than what it was eight to 10 years in the past when costs had been so much decrease, demand was so much decrease and competitors was additionally so much much less, too.
It’s simply the fact is it’s tougher to get out of the rat race with actual property than it ever was earlier than. I’ve come to take a look at actual property investing as a complement to my wealth constructing, not as essentially the muse upon which I’ll depend on my earnings to come back in.
I believe most individuals, there’s a handful of those that don’t match that avatar, however most individuals most likely can be higher off in the event that they checked out it the identical means. Then if now we have one other huge financial crash and you bought a bunch of cash saved up, that’s when you should buy loads of properties that may perform to interchange your earnings sooner or later.
However we don’t have management over when that occurs. It looks like each time we hit a recession, we simply print a bunch of cash in order that by no means comes about. That’s prompted loads of inflation, which has made the price of residing go increased, which has mockingly made these belongings much more costly and tougher to get.
Let’s speak about what you are able to do. I don’t just like the considered going to an space with much less demand. I additionally don’t just like the considered getting a brand new building three, two. Three, twos should not rental properties. In 2010, 2011, I might purchase a 3, two as a rental property.
If you happen to get a screaming whole lot on a property like from a brilliant motivated vendor, you may make it a rental property. However even then, should you have a look at the return on fairness on the worth, you’d need to pay to make that deal money stream, you’d be higher off to purchase it, promote it, transfer that fairness to one thing that’s like a six, three, two, three twos with that cash versus one.
These should not meant to be rental properties. These are supposed to be homes individuals dwell in that may be made into money flowing properties, however they’re not designed for that. I’d moderately see you purchase a 5, two and a half or a 5, three and hire the rooms out individually.
I’d moderately see you purchase a small house complicated of seven to eight items and hire that out than simply go purchase a 3, two, particularly new building. If you happen to’re on this costly market in Colorado, you may’t go purchase a brand new building residence, pay market value and attempt to make that work as a rental. You’re going to lose cash.
You bought to do one thing extra artistic. You bought to discover a property that has sq. footage that may be added, sq. footage that may be transformed to get three items out of 1 unit. You bought to attempt so much tougher to make these items work in at the moment’s market than earlier than. I believe you’re most likely seeing that.
I’d advise you on the duplex route over the brand new building. However are you able to get one thing within the center? Can you discover one thing within the space that you just like that would have extra items in it than what you’re seeing? May you get a brand new building duplex and even higher a brand new building fourplex?
Are you able to discuss to the builder and say, “May you construct me a four-unit property? Is the zoning going to permit for that?” That’d be fairly cool. I wager should you get 4 items, you can truly most likely make it work. Possibly you bought to have a number of conversations like that with completely different builders or completely different renovators to ask like, “What may very well be achieved for the worth that I’ve acquired to get multiple unit?’
That’s why most properties should not money flowing. Since you’re analyzing a home with one unit and a pair bedrooms. You’re not analyzing an house complicated or a number of items, which is what you want should you’re going to get money stream.
Good luck on that, Marc. I do know you’re in a troublesome market on the market. Your final possibility might simply be make investments out of state. If you recognize the Ohio market, such as you talked about, possibly you return on the market and you purchase another properties and you retain placing your cash there till now we have a crash and you may truly discover one thing in Colorado that works for you.
All proper. On our final query comes from John McKee out of Fairfax, Virginia. David, you speak about placing methods in place to assist develop your online business. What does that appear like and the way did it evolve? Are you able to give me some examples of these kinds of methods and the way they made you extra environment friendly?
Oh, my gosh. First off, nice query. Second off, concisely worded. Third, you acid it in a good way. Not solely what do they appear like, however how did they evolve? As a result of that’s the one technique to reply this query is you bought to speak about what your first system regarded like and the way it grew, as a result of none of you’re simply going to go plop down a system and say, “It’s achieved.”
However that’s what everybody explains it. You hearken to Alex Hormoze otherwise you hearken to among the different on-line gurus like, “You want a system. You desire a enterprise, not a job.” You’re like, “Okay. Okay. Let’s do it.” Then they clarify the way it works and also you assume you’re simply going to go wave a magic wand and you’ve got a system. You don’t.
What you have got is a primary step out of 700 steps that may turn into a system. Ask you the way it advanced is a good way to phrase this. Let’s discuss. I keep in mind being in John’s place right here. I had a chat with Kyle Renke, who’s now the Chief Working Officer of The David Greene group. Helps me put loads of the occasions collectively that I do, the retreats that I run.
He helps run the YouTube channel. He does loads of various things. I keep in mind saying, I hold listening to individuals inform me that I would like a system and I don’t freaking know what meaning. I get the idea of a system, however how am I speculated to execute it? Is there software program I’m supposed to purchase?
Am I supposed to write down it down on a notepad? Paint an image for me of what this seems to be like. I used to be so pissed off as a result of I knew what I wanted, however I didn’t know learn how to get it. Kyle got here again to me and he’s like, “Okay. What all it is advisable to do is open Google Drive and begin open a folder about no matter you wish to make after which make subfolders contained in the folder with the opposite items after which use Google paperwork to sort out the directions.”
That little piece of data unlocked what my mind was on the lookout for. Okay. I’m like Forrest Gump. I’m not a wise man, however I do know what love is. I wanted somebody to simply paint me an image that I might get, like, “Okay. That’s what I wanted. I can run with that.” I simply went nuts.
I turned a methods man as a result of I had that little spark that began me. Hopefully me answering this query might be that spark for lots of you. Let me provide you with an instance of data that I educate actual property brokers and learn how to construct methods. As a result of I did an excellent job of systemizing the job of an actual property agent.
Then I did an excellent job of systemizing the function of a mortgage officer. As soon as I had that, I might rent individuals for the one brokerage, for The David Greene Group, for no matter else I’m doing. They knew what function they had been going to play. However earlier than I might do this, I needed to construct your complete factor out.
I’m going to present you guys an instance of that after which I’m going to indicate you a screenshot from my telephone that exhibits you the way one of many methods works after I’m combining each brokers and mortgage officers collectively in a single system.
All proper. If I used to be going to take a list, which is among the best issues to systemize as a result of patrons are loopy they usually’re very emotional and you bought to do loads of various things, it’s tougher to systemize that. It’s prefer it’s herding cats. It may be achieved. However poof, it’s labored.
Listings are a lot simpler. What I began was I made a listing of every little thing I needed to do in a list. The objective of the unique listing is simply to not neglect. Your system begins off whereby eliminating errors of omission, you’re simply making an attempt to be sure you don’t neglect to show the insurance coverage on in your rental property.
You don’t neglect to have automated withdrawals arrange for the mortgage fee. All of those, the utilities turned on. It’s straightforward, man. I purchased a number of homes after which realized, “Oh, my God. Nobody turned on the air-con. We don’t have utilities.”
The property managers exhibiting it to a tenant the home is 105 levels. This occurs generally once you don’t have these methods. It’s only a guidelines. Okay. Right here’s all of the issues that need to occur after I first purchase a rental. Right here’s all of the issues that need to occur after I first listing a house.
I’ve spreadsheets now the place my workers, each time I purchase a home has a column of all of the stuff they acquired to do, they get the utilities turned on, get the auto-pay arrange. Right here’s a hyperlink within the spreadsheet that may go to the Google Drive folder the place we’ll hold the insurance coverage, the place we’ll hold the mortgage assertion, the place we’ll hold the data if we ever want this on a later date, since you at all times do.
For listings, it was order assigned to place within the yard, have the photographer go take footage, have a lockbox placed on the property, get a spare key from the shopper, be sure the itemizing settlement is stuffed out. This stone’s apparent, however you simply begin by writing down all the apparent issues it is advisable to do. Okay.
I most likely had a listing of 15 issues. When Krista was employed, my first assistant, that’s what she labored on. Now what would occur is we’d understand, “Oh, we forgot to” … What’s a factor you may neglect on a list to do? You bought to place it within the MLS. Possibly we’d neglect to get a sure kind stuffed out that we wanted to place it within the MLS.
I’d have a look at the place on this collection of 15 issues that step ought to go, and I’d simply go into my Google Doc. I’d step 12, I’d hit Enter and that makes 13, and I’d put that new factor. Each single time we made a mistake, anyone got here to us and mentioned, “This must get achieved and it wasn’t on the listing.” It added to the listing. It added to the listing, added to the listing. It went from 15 issues to 50 issues.
That’s how a lot stuff is definitely being achieved. A few of these 50 had subpoints. Get the itemizing settlement signed would then flip into, give a duplicate of it to the dealer, give a duplicate of it to the escrow firm. All of these items would begin to apply. You probably did have these subpoints, however you continue to simply have a guidelines on a Google Doc, beneath a Google folder with the property’s identify, which is in a folder that claims “Listings.” Okay. It’s that straightforward.
Now, at a sure level I understand there’s these items might be clumped into levels. I broke my listing of fifty issues or 75 issues into 4 completely different levels. The primary was pre-listing. Okay. This was all of the stuff I wanted if I used to be going to go to your home to promote your house. I’d have a comparative market evaluation run by my workers they usually have a look at each energetic, pending and bought residence that was available on the market.
I confirmed them by sitting with them, right here’s the way you name each single individual, each agent that has an energetic and a pending sale. You ask them, “What number of gives are you getting? The place are the gives coming in? Do you assume you’re priced too excessive?” Then I’d educate them learn how to construct rapport. There’s no agent simply desires to inform you that.
Earlier than I went to a list, that is the work I’d do. I don’t present as much as promote your home and simply be like, “Right here’s what we should always promote it for.” I’ve achieved some analysis. I do know these homes are listed at 700, however they’re promoting for 780, so we don’t need to listing that low. We might are available at 765 or one thing.
Or these homes had been listed at 850 they usually’re simply sitting there. They’re not promoting. The agent says they’re about to do a value discount at 775, so we don’t wish to copy that individual. I had all this data and I had notes. Their home seems to be like this. Your home seems to be like this. These are the very best cops. I’d have them do this.
Then we had these David Greene Group folders made and we had these pens. I don’t assume I’ve one round. However they appear form of like this, however they had been crimson and black with our brand and the identify. Krista would put, get the folder, put the pen. We had a advertising pamphlet. We nonetheless do, referred to as the Blueprint that explains to sellers all of the steps that go into promoting a home in addition to patrons, all of the steps that go into it.
She’d put the comparative market evaluation. She’d put a duplicate of the itemizing settlement. We’ve got a pop socket that goes on the again of a telephone. A type of issues that you can maintain it with that was branded. We had all these goodies that we’d deliver and all that will go in a folder.
Then I’d have an iPad that I’d deliver with me is that’s what I’d give the presentation on. Okay. I do know it is a little bit of an extended reply. However I’m exhibiting you guys a degree of element that goes into the system.
Then the entire steps that had been wanted for me to have the ability to promote … to get the itemizing signed had been on this doc as much as the purpose the place there’s even a reminder for Krista to place the tackle within the calendar of my telephone by means of the pc that was linked to it in order that I’d simply get a 3:00 itemizing appointment.
You bought to go to this tackle, and there’d be a reminder half-hour earlier than that will say, “Put the factor in your automobile,” as a result of as you guys observed, I neglect to show the sunshine inexperienced. I’d neglect to seize the folder at, get to the itemizing appointment. It was dangerous.
Then Krista knew that she wanted to be on name after I was at a list appointment. If I used to be there and also you had been like, “Nicely, David, I imply I do know you have got a group, however I actually wish to work with you. How do I do know that I’m going to get good service?” I’d say, “Let’s do this. Let’s name Krista proper now and see what occurs.”
I’d name, she’d be like, “Hello.” I’m like, “Hey, Krista, are you able to do me a favor? Pull up this home on the MLS or pull up this home on Zillow and may you inform me what the home is round her promoting for?” She’ll be like, “No drawback.” She’d pull it up like, “Oh, there’s three different houses which might be all pending on the market and no different energetic houses.” I’m like, “There you go.”
Now we are able to see precisely. Would you like me to name one of many brokers and ask them a query? They’re like, “Wow. You’ve acquired this dispatcher that’s simply prepared to leap in.” After that, I had a listing of stuff that we’d do after the itemizing presentation was signed, however earlier than we went energetic.
This might be getting the image scheduled, getting the lockbox, placed on the door, getting the signal within the yard, having cleaners go to scrub up the home, double checking to ensure that houses didn’t come available on the market. There have been competitors that we didn’t find out about. They might test that each single day. I’d have workers that got duties to do that.
You see how detail-oriented that we’re moving into this factor, ensuring that the data of the house was uploaded into the MLS although we didn’t go dwell. We needed it there prepared in order that for one, if some motive we needed to go dwell earlier, we might simply click on a button.
We had been on the final minute taking two and a half hours to get the data prepared and the shopper’s like, “Why is the home listed? I need it dwell.” Then we had stuff as soon as it was listed, however earlier than it was in contract that was on that listing. That’d be the subsequent step that comes up, checking in with the shopper each week, checking in with all of the brokers to get suggestions of what they mentioned.
Krista would name each single purchaser’s agent that confirmed considered one of my listings and requested for suggestions what they thought and what their shoppers thought. We’d get that data to share with our shoppers who had been letting us promote their home.
Then as soon as it went in contract, a complete new stuff, the title firm wants the contract. The lender wants the contract. We have to begin a timeline of constructing certain that the customer’s lenders doing their job. What would occur is properties would fall out of contract as a result of the customer couldn’t safe lending. I practiced excessive possession.
As an alternative of claiming, “Oh, properly, nothing we might do.” I’d say, “You already know what? We must always have referred to as their lender to ensure that every little thing was good.” As an alternative of counting on the customer’s agent who lies. It turned part of that factor for Krista to name as soon as per week and test with the lenders of the patrons who’re shopping for our listings.
This isn’t my job. That is the opposite agent’s job. However I’d do their job as a result of I wanted that deal to shut. In the event that they had been like, “Yeah. The individual’s not giving me their statements. The individual’s not getting again to me. They gained’t let me pull their credit score.” I knew one thing was occurring.
When the agent was like, “Oh, yeah. Every thing’s effective. It’s going alongside pleasantly. However I do know that they’re not submitting the data that they wanted to their lenders. Possibly they’re different homes. Possibly they’re fascinated with backing out. I’d go to our shoppers and I’d say, “I believe we have to pull the plug on this purchaser and put it again available on the market and get one other one.”
Nicely, what if we lose them? We’ve already misplaced them. They simply haven’t mentioned that. That is what no different brokers are doing as a result of they don’t have these methods. Then as soon as the home bought, there was a complete one other stuff. Ensuring that the stuff acquired taken out of our shopper’s identify and put it into the customer’s identify.
Ensuring all of the furnishings acquired moved out of the home. Ensuring that we marked it within the MLS that’s now bought as a substitute of pending. Ensuring all of the paperwork wanted to be attending to the dealer went to the best dealer. Ensuring we acquired the shopper a present. Ensuring we put a testimonial up on social media.
All of these items you can’t depend on your mind to inform you. It’s a must to do all of it. It’s the identical means after I purchase a rental property. It’s the identical means after I rent an individual’s work within the groups. You’ve acquired to systemize every little thing. Now every little thing I simply advised you, okay, that’s not sufficient. That’s simply the guidelines.
What we then took was we took the guidelines and we moved it into our CRM referred to as Brevity, and we created auto plan. What would occur is that chunk of the listing, get these items prepared for David earlier than he goes to the itemizing presentation was put within the CRM and saved as an auto plan.
Krista would test a field that will say like 123 Fundamental Avenue pre-listing presentation or no matter, and it could robotically populate a collection of reminders to inform her this must be achieved, this must be achieved, after which we might assign it to a different worker.
If we had a list coordinator, Krista would put the data into Brevity, test the field. The itemizing coordinator would get a reminder of the 12 issues that needed to be achieved to get me able to go. Okay. Then after the stuff was signed, we’d come again and he or she would test the subsequent field that will say, itemizing pre-active, or no matter we referred to as it.
Then all these reminders that had been within the Google Doc robotically go to the best individual on the group, and now they know with all that they should do all these steps. Krista or me might look and see, are they doing their job? Are they checking issues off? Is it going the place it must go? It was lovely.
It took all of the reminiscence out of it, which is how we acquired to the purpose that we might promote 50 houses with a handful of admin workers at a time. I had 53 homes in escrow on the peak with me and three different admin in addition to simply the brokers, and it was working superbly. Okay.
That is how methods must work. Now, clearly none of that occurs instantly. We nonetheless refine these methods as a result of often one thing goes fallacious that we by no means anticipated and we go add one thing to the system to say, “Okay. Now now we have so as to add this in right here, or we have to take one thing out.” That doesn’t occur anymore.
That’s the way it concerned in a single space of my life, only a actual property agent. I put loads of the stuff within the books I wrote for BiggerPockets Offered Ability and Scale, which you guys should buy on the BiggerPockets bookstore should you’re brokers.
If you happen to’re buyers, that is stuff I educate to different individuals with the spreadsheets I’ve, like gives written, gives accepted, closed, closed beneath rehab, closed needing furnishings, like all of the completely different levels of after I’m shopping for properties in order that Krista and I and no matter admin now we have can sustain with it.
That is why I inform you guys actual property is figure. It’s not like, “Oh, I purchased a home and I’m achieved.” You continue to acquired to do loads of stuff and these methods are what’s so highly effective. Thanks John for letting me go on a 15-minute clarification of how methods are born and advanced.
I might do a whole podcast about this, possibly a whole collection of podcasts as a result of they’re so vital. As you’re listening, I simply wish to remind you, don’t anticipate to get it proper on the primary attempt. Methods are advanced, identical to John mentioned, they’re developed. They aren’t simply one thing that growth, you snap your fingers and say, “Hey. Can I’ve your spreadsheet of all of your methods?” and assume you’re going to be achieved. It’s not like that.
All proper, everyone. That was our present for at the moment. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us on at the moment’s Seeing Greene episode. I like doing these and I like much more that you just guys are submitting your video questions in addition to your written questions for me to reply.
Please keep in mind to take a minute to go away a touch upon the YouTube channel in addition to like, share and subscribe and let me know what did you consider at the moment’s present. You may observe extra of me at DavidGreene24. I’m on social media all over the place in addition to YouTube.
If you wish to meet in individual and also you’re too shy to submit a video, go to davidgreene24.com/retreats the place you may try methods you could meet with me. We will speak about actual property. I can assist you in your journey. We will get to know one another and we are able to kind that neighborhood that’s so vital for individuals to get lonely.
Thanks so much guys. BiggerPockets has a number of content material on the market. Take a look at one other considered one of our movies when you’ve got a while. If not, I’ll see you subsequent week.