How to Make Even MORE Cash Flow Off Your Rental Properties

David Greene:
That is the BiggerPockets Podcast. What’s happening everybody? It’s David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Actual Property podcast, coming to you from Kauai, and that’s one of many issues I like about actual property is I get to convey you guys questions from our listener base from in every single place on the planet. My hope is that extra of you may get to the identical place and we’re going to share some recommendation immediately that may provide help to do exactly that. At present’s Seeing Greene episode has lots of great things, together with what a house fairness settlement is and if one needs to be used. The perfect methods to reinvest the cashflow that you just’re making out of your present portfolio immediately and the way try to be serious about it and a stay name with one in every of our listeners the place we trip.
Serving to them decide if they need to take the cash they’ve made in actual property and enhance the properties they’ve or if they need to purchase new properties and if that’s the case, what to be serious about when going backwards and forwards with that call. Lots of people in immediately’s market have fairness they usually’re making an attempt to determine how they need to use it, and generally meaning shopping for extra actual property, however generally meaning enhancing the true property they’ve. I particularly like this subject as a result of lots of people have fairness they usually’re tapping into it with HELOCs, however they’re undecided if they need to use that HELOC cash to scale into an even bigger portfolio or enhance what they’ve obtained. So we deal with that and extra on immediately’s episode of Seeing Greene.
We’re going to usher in our first visitor in a second, however earlier than we do a fast tip for you all. You’re going to listen to extra about it within the subsequent query, however I’m a agency believer, particularly if you happen to’ve obtained a short-term rental that tapping into your fairness and utilizing that cash to enhance the property, enhance the decor, add facilities to it, make it look nicer, get higher photos taken, is a fast strategy to get a return in your capital that may then be used to pay the fairness line of credit score again down. I don’t love in immediately’s market taking $200,000 out of a home at a fairly excessive rate of interest and utilizing that for the down fee on a property that you just then need to get one other mortgage for the opposite 80% and stacking up debt when charges are increased.
I’m a a lot greater fan of a get in and get out technique, form of like utilizing a jet ski as an alternative of a battleship. Take out some fairness, repair up your own home, enhance the income, after which pay the fairness mortgage off with that income after which, ask your self how you are able to do it once more. How will you recycle that very same 20 or $30,000 to enhance the properties you’ve obtained and win within the short-term rental wars? All proper, let’s get to our first visitor immediately. Let’s welcome Stacie to the studio. Stacie, welcome to Seeing Greene. Somewhat little bit of background about you. You’ve obtained a single household property, a duplex, and a chunk of property within the Austin space, in New Braunfels, Texas. So joke right here, I virtually invested in New Braunfels myself about 5 years in the past and need I might have, as a result of I might have finished very properly.
I fell prey to that very same downside of, properly, after I first heard about it was this a lot and now it’s $50,000 extra. I don’t wish to get in too late and made the identical mistake that I inform all people else to not make as a result of I discovered it in that instance. So congratulations on doing the suitable do and having a New Braunfels property. So, inform us what’s in your thoughts immediately.

Stacie:
Thanks. Sure, so contemplating these properties we now have and our long-term technique of purchase and maintain, which we’re a 100% in on, so we now have this property in New Braunfels. We really purchased it web site unseen and it was an excellent buy for us. It’s zoned multifamily. It’s one block from the Guadalupe River, so it has a single household residence on there the place we now have a long-term renter, however we now have the chance to develop it as a result of it’s already zoned for multifamily. It’s half an acre lot. Then, we now have this plot, this quarter acre plot in Lago Vista close to Lake Travis that was given to us from household that additionally has improvement alternative.
So we now have these two properties that we personal, which have improvement alternatives, but additionally, we’re tempted to purchase our subsequent funding property. So we’re on the level of making an attempt to determine will we keep the course, depart these properties as is as a result of we now have a long-term renter in New Braunfels, we’re money flowing about $600 a month there, so it’s properly paying for itself after which some. Then, we now have this lot that’s simply sitting there vacant that we’re making an attempt to determine what to do with. Our duplex in South Austin is money flowing about $2,100 a month. So we now have two long-term leases there. We’re not seeking to develop or do something with that proper now. So we’re at that form of inflection level.
Can we purchase our subsequent funding property or is now the time that we really do some compelled fairness and develop the New Braunfels property or construct one thing in Lago Vista?

David Greene:
Alrighty.

Rob:
My first query right here is what’s the purpose that you just wish to get into the following property? Is the rationale you wish to get into the following property merely for the sake of progress and also you’re like, “Hey, I simply wish to add to the portfolio. I don’t really want the money circulate,” or do you wish to get into one other property since you need more money circulate since you want an additional couple of hundred bucks each month?

Stacie:
We don’t want the additional money each month. We wish to develop the portfolio and we additionally wish to make investments kind of, I do know it’s not about timing the markets, time in market, however it nonetheless appears like now is an efficient time earlier than everyone seems to be again available in the market, ought to charges come down. So we’re form of feeling that, desirous to get the following property as a result of we do wish to develop the portfolio, but additionally, when is it time to truly develop these properties that we’re sitting on too? So we’re form of don’t know which strategy to go essentially.

Rob:
I believe if you happen to’re not pressed for the money circulate and also you’ve obtained lots and also you’ve obtained a property that’s zoned for extra property, I’m an enormous fan of creating as many streams of earnings off of 1 property as attainable. So, when you’ve got the steam and when you’ve got kind of the dedication and I assume the open thoughts to simply undergo a brand new building, then I believe it’s best to do it. An enormous fan, I really assume that new building is simply one of the best ways to fight lots of issues which are occurring proper now as a result of sure, you can be getting one thing at the next curiosity if you happen to purchase a property. So for me, I’m like, I believe if you happen to can go and construct one thing at your value with out the markup of somebody … if you happen to go and purchase a brand new building off of Redfin, you’re paying their value and also you’re paying a premium for it, proper?
So if you happen to can go and construct one thing at your value, it’s not likely that very same markup as getting it off the MLS and while you refi out and get your cash out, you’ll have the next rate of interest on that in fact, however it gained’t harm fairly as dangerous as having gone and bought a property straight off the MLS, if that is sensible. So when you’ve got the power to attend it out for let’s say 12 to 18 months, then I undoubtedly assume constructing from the bottom up is a extremely sensible factor to do proper now.

David Greene:
All proper. I’ll weigh in on this too. I like the query. It comes up lots the place I stay within the Bay Space, you sometimes see this in dearer areas, the place the query is do I construct an ADU or do I purchase a brand new home? And the tough factor is you may’t finance the construct. When you may finance the construct, it will virtually at all times be a simple, “Yeah, simply enhance the property you’ve obtained.” The issue is you bought to place lots of capital all the way down to do it. So I prefer to attempt to simplify this turning into apples to apples as a lot as I can. And I requested the query of, for the capital I’m going to place into this factor, how a lot money circulate am I going to obtain?
What’s the ROI on that and the way a lot fairness am I going to construct? What’s the return on funding on that? So if you happen to have been so as to add to the property that you have already got, how a lot cash would it’s a must to put down to do that and do you assume it will enhance the fairness

Stacie:
For the New Braunfels property, we in all probability must put down about 200,000 in capital to construct an ADU, no less than an ADU, proper? A prefab ADU would in all probability be about 200,000, all in. For the Lago Vista property, we’re taking a look at in all probability 250 upwards to half 1,000,000 of capital to place in to develop that property, as a result of it’s uncooked land, it’s going to require much more clearance and work to get that property prepared for constructing. So I don’t assume we might do each on the identical time. I believe we’re form of anxious to actually take a look at … I believe the New Braunfels property has essentially the most potential as a result of it’s such a rising space and the placement of it’s prime, being a block from the Guadalupe River. So I believe there’s lots of upside to creating New Braunfels from all that I can inform.

David Greene:
So if you happen to put the $200,000 into New Braunfels, would you add fairness to the property?

Stacie:
Sure, I consider we might add fairness to the property.

David Greene:
How a lot do you assume you’d be including?

Stacie:
I believe we in all probability could be including … we purchased it two years in the past. We now have in all probability about … I’m going to say about 40,000 in fairness in simply the previous two years within the property. So if we add an ADU, we’d additionally need to configure the entrance home a bit too to place the ADU in. I don’t know, however I’m going to guess that we might in all probability add about … instantly a couple of hundred, 150,000 in fairness in that property. Does that sound about proper, the numbers I’ve shared?

David Greene:
I don’t know the realm. Yeah, it may. It may work. What concerning the money circulate? When you construct an ADU for $200,000, what’s going to it hire for?

Stacie:
Yeah, as a result of proper now, we’re renting, all in P and I is like 1800. 18, 1900 we’re renting for 25 on the one household residence, so we’ve obtained good money circulate there. We will construct as much as 1,000 sq. foot ADU with out it being thought of a second principal construction on the property. So 1,000 sq. foot, we may in all probability hire that, I’m going to say round 18, 1900 in immediately’s marketplace for 1,000 sq. ft.

David Greene:
Okay. Would this enhance the property taxes on the property if you happen to add to this work, make it price extra?

Stacie:
Almost certainly.

David Greene:
After which the place are they at New Braunfels like two and a half p.c or so?

Stacie:
No, it’s proper round 2%. It’s like 1.97, one thing like that. Yeah.

David Greene:
So that could be a fairly wholesome return. I imply, you’re having further property taxes and there’s going to be extra insurance coverage, however nonetheless, I consider you mentioned it was 1800, you assume that you just’d hire it for?

Stacie:
Sure.

David Greene:
So let’s say you retain say, 1400 of that to take a position 200,000. That’s not a nasty deal there. You’re not too far off from the 1% rule. The draw back could be you’re spending $200,000 so as to add $100,000 of fairness, so that you’re really shedding fairness in a way since you’re transferring that cash out of your checking account into the property. You’re going to lose $100,000 of worth there, however you’re going to realize the additional money circulate of say, $1,400 a month or $1,300 a month. Now, right here’s why I framed it that method. I believe your job right here, Stacie, is to ask your self with this $200,000, if I put it into a special funding car, may I get higher than say 13 or $1,400 a month and keep away from shedding a $100,000 of fairness? May you set $200,000 into constructing a brand new residence building that you just may acquire $100,000 of fairness on the finish as an alternative of shedding it?
That’s a $200,000 swing, or possibly you get higher money circulate, possibly the money circulate just isn’t nearly as good, however you don’t lose as a lot fairness. Have you ever seemed into alternatives like that?

Stacie:
I haven’t, no.

David Greene:
Okay. That’s how my thoughts goes to it. What if you happen to paid money for one thing that was $200,000, possibly a fixer higher, you mounted it up after which, you refinanced out of it, you might do it once more, or you might purchase 1,000,000 greenback property, put $200,000 down, so that you’ve obtained these. In my thoughts, you’ve obtained the three choices. You set it as a down fee on one thing, you pay money for one thing otherwise you put it into the property you’ve got. Rob, what are you considering?

Rob:
Yeah, I assume I’d actually wish to … and we’re not going to have the ability to resolve for this on this episode sadly, however I’d wish to know what sort of fairness we’d be including as a result of I believe it’s, I’m not going to say uncommon, however I really feel like if you happen to’re constructing one thing in your property comparable to an ADU or a secondary unit, I really feel just like the fairness that you just’re constructing needs to be fairly commensurate with the amount of cash that you just’re investing, proper? So it’s like I believe if you happen to have been going to spend 200 however you’re solely getting a $100,000 in fairness, then yeah, I might agree with David. I in all probability wouldn’t try this.
I’d go discover someplace the place I’d get the one for one ratio on that, however I do surprise if you happen to would get that full fairness out of including an addition to the property. If the reply is sure, I might go that route after which construct it after which, do a cash-out refi and attempt to get as a lot of that cash again, as a result of if you happen to try this and also you get a fairly good portion of your a refund, then your ROI skyrockets in that time. I’m an enormous fan of this technique solely since you get to stack earnings streams on one property and it actually makes an enormous distinction. I had a property in LA. After I purchased it, it was $400 mortgage. I’ve since refinanced, it’s like 4,200 now, however I now hire out the primary residence, which matches for … anyplace from 3,500 to $5,000 a month.
I’ve obtained an ADU within the yard that goes for anyplace from 2300 to $3,000 a month, and I also have a third unit that I don’t hire out, however I used to, and that was one other $2,000 for that unit. So while you added all of it up, it was like $8,000 on one property and your revenue margins on which are simply so wholesome. Your landscaping payments are all consolidated to that one property. Your entire payments are simply consolidated into this one enterprise, and that’s why I’m an enormous fan of build up mainly as many earnings streams on one property as attainable, assuming that your fairness that you just put in is one for one on the funding that you just put in.

David Greene:
That’s the important thing there, Stacie. I don’t love the deal if you happen to’re placing in extra money than you’re gaining in fairness. Listening to that, what’s going by means of your thoughts.

Stacie:
Yeah. No, that makes a ton of sense. I’m not 100% on all of the numbers. That is so far as I’ve been in a position to get, however I’ll dig deeper by way of the precise fairness we’d be capable to get out of that property. Yeah, and simply to throw a curveball right here, proper? Our home in Los Angeles, we’re within the San Fernando Valley, we’re in Encino up within the hills. That’s why my web is a little bit spotty. I imply, we have been initially going to maintain this home and promote it or not promote it, however use that as kind of our funding property right here, hire it out. Our newest considering was to promote this home to purchase extra properties in Texas.
So we’re making an attempt to deal with all of our properties as kind of a part of the portfolio and the way will we leverage them to the utmost, and I do know David, you’re up in Northern California, however I don’t know, we have been kind of beginning to assume that we simply needed to get out of California.

David Greene:
Stunning. I’ve by no means heard anyone say this.

Stacie:
Yeah, by no means, proper?

David Greene:
Yeah. It’s one thing to consider since you in all probability have lots of fairness there. I don’t assume it will profit you to promote it and put the cash into Texas, except the place you’re going to place the cash, and it sounds such as you obtained to determine that downside out first. The place are we going to deploy our capital and the way are we going to deploy it? I don’t assume it’s going to be so simple as let’s simply construct onto what we have already got. There could also be one thing the place I might wish to take a few of that money and search for a method to purchase one thing that was possibly distressed that I may repair up and add worth to it, though it’s not dangerous constructing an ADU in that space the place you’re going to have tenants, the values are going to be going up.
It’s not going to harm you. I simply hate these excessive Texas property taxes, proper? If the property worth does go up, these taxes harm out of the money circulate you’d be getting.

Stacie:
They do, and insurance coverage goes up too, in order that’s yearly, steadily insurance coverage goes up.

David Greene:
That’s proper. Effectively, thanks Stacie. This was query. I believe an increasing number of individuals are asking this query as a result of charges are excessive, so it’s not an computerized, sure, I ought to go purchase one other property. Now, the charges are getting actually excessive. It’s exhausting to make them money circulate. So we’re beginning to ask questions like this, so thanks for bringing this up.

Stacie:
Thanks guys.

David Greene:
Thanks, Stacie.

Rob:
Thanks.

David Greene:
All proper, thanks Stacie for becoming a member of us immediately. I simply dropped Rob off at a Chipotle, so I’ll be flying solo for the remainder of immediately’s episode, however huge thanks to Rob for becoming a member of. I used to be so appreciative that I really left him with a greenback so he may get some additional guac on that burrito that he loves a lot. His tip for getting essentially the most out of 1 property is a superb takeaway and I admire him sharing that. If you need to have Rob and I, or me or anybody else within the BP universe reply your particular questions, head over to biggerpockets.com/david the place you may submit them and that may make me such as you. When you’ve submitted a query to Seeing Greene, you may think about your self my buddy, and once we see one another at BP Con, I’ll take an image with you, hug you and say one thing good.
I hope you’re getting some worth out of immediately’s dialog and our listener questions to this point, however we’ve obtained extra arising after this part. I prefer to take a minute in the midst of our reveals to share feedback that you just all have left on YouTube or while you evaluation the podcast. Our first evaluation comes from 1981 South Bay. “Love the Seeing Greene episodes. I like these episodes and it’s an awesome addition to have Rob on the sequence. My spouse and I’ve been listening to Larger Pockets for 2 years. We lastly simply purchased our first two duplexes and are planning to amass extra properties. We couldn’t have finished it with out this podcast and the group. Thanks, David, Rob, and all the BP group.”
Effectively, thanks South Bay for a five-star evaluation. That’s freaking superior. I hope a few of our listeners go and observe your lead and in addition, if you happen to’re within the South Bay of the Northern California Bay Space, we’re mainly neighbors. I stay about an hour away from you, so just be sure you attain out on Instagram. Let me know you’re the one who left that remark and let’s see, if we are able to get you coming as much as a number of the meetups that I do in Northern California. We’ve obtained some feedback right here from the Seeing Greene episode 840 that got here immediately off of the YouTube channel. The primary one comes from Dan Cohan. “Thanks for sharing this superior video. I actually relate to the struggles of estimating renovation prices, particularly while you’re investing in actual property from far-off.” After which Laura Peffer added, “Sure, please do a whole present on To Money Circulate or To not Money circulate.”
Effectively, you’ve spoken and we’ve listened. We really did report a present on when it’s okay or possibly not okay to purchase non-cash flowing properties and I’ll speak to our manufacturing employees about placing a present collectively that claims, is money circulate the one purpose to put money into actual property or is it okay to not put money into it? Possibly we’ll have a backwards and forwards the place we now have the money circulate defenders and the appreciation avengers or nonetheless we’re going to name that. In case you missed it, return and hearken to episode 853, which was launched on December sixth the place we break down three destructive cashflow offers. All proper, let’s get into the following query. All proper, our subsequent query comes from Roy Gottsteiner. He’s a overseas nationwide residing overseas, so he’s having a tough time getting financing.
He can solely get 60 to 65% mortgage to worth ratios and no entry to merchandise like FHA or HELOC. Roy began 4 years in the past investing in North Carolina and Ohio and at the moment has a portfolio of 10 single-family housing leases. He does primarily BRRR and long-term conventional leases and not too long ago began doing a little medium phrases. Roy says, “Hello David. These episodes are extraordinarily useful and are serving to me to always alter my considering based mostly on the present market dynamics in addition to my very own place within the investing journey, so thanks for every little thing. I constructed a portfolio of 10 items, which cashflow two to $3,000 a month. I’m 35 and I’ve an awesome job, so I don’t want this earnings and intend to reinvest all of it.”
“I’m making an attempt to consider one of the best ways to make use of that cash to additional improve my progress in direction of monetary independence. Right here’s some choices I had in thoughts, however pleased to listen to your ideas. If there’s anything I should be considering of. Investing it repeatedly right into a inventory index and greenback value averaging for a long-term maintain. Greenback value averaging mainly means you simply preserve shopping for inventory even when the value is dropping. It’s humorous that we got here up with this phrase, greenback value averaging to say, properly simply preserve shopping for even when the value goes decrease as a result of ultimately it’s going to go up and you’ll have purchased it at a decrease common than the costs after they have been excessive. Quantity two, paying off mortgages on my funding properties to cut back leverage and enhance cashflow.”
“Quantity three, save the cash and take a look at discovering a inventive finance cope with a 30,000 greenback entry annually. My final buy was a sub two with a 42,000 greenback entry, and it was an awesome one. Wanting ahead to your sage recommendation.” All proper, thanks for that query. I admire that. I can reply this one fairly fast. I don’t love the thought of paying off your mortgages, particularly as a result of if you happen to purchased them and you’ve got 10 of them, they in all probability have fairly low charges proper now, so that you’re not saving a ton of cash doing that. You additionally need to pay a ton of mortgage off earlier than you really don’t need to make the fee when it’s owned free and clear, so that you don’t actually see the return on that cash for years.
It could be 10, 15, 20 years of making an attempt to pay these items off earlier than you really do away with that curiosity in your mortgage. So what’s going to occur is you’ll construct the fairness in it sooner, however you gained’t put cash in your financial institution sooner. So I don’t love that concept and I don’t love investing into the inventory index, as a result of I don’t wish to give recommendation about one thing that I don’t actually perceive and I don’t know that there’s any stable recommendation I may give anyone in the case of investing in shares. I additionally simply assume you’ll do higher with actual property long run. So your third choice, saving the cash and looking for a inventive finance deal just like the one you probably did final time is fairly good.
And right here’s why I like that. When you don’t discover the inventive finance deal, you simply have extra reserves and also you’re by no means going to seek out me upset about somebody who has lots of reserves, particularly contemplating the financial system that we’re going into. Prior to now, success was all about scaling and buying. What number of doorways are you able to get? That was the cocktail social gathering brag, I’ve this many doorways. Sooner or later, I consider, it’s going to be, what can you retain? How will you maintain on to the true property you’ve already purchased? And reserves is usually a enormous consider saving you there. All proper, transferring into our subsequent query. This comes from Chris Lloyd in Hampton Roads, Virginia.

Chris Lloyd:
Hey David. My identify is Chris Lloyd from Newport Information, Virginia. And right here’s my query. I at the moment have a property I used to be seeking to renovate and I plan to fund this renovation utilizing a HELOC. I’ve obtained two properties with some good fairness in it and I came upon not too long ago that I can’t qualify for a HELOC as a result of I’ve been self-employed for lower than two years. Took my enterprise full-time a little bit over a 12 months in the past. So I’ve been trying in different methods to finance this undertaking and got here throughout residence fairness agreements. This isn’t one thing I’ve actually heard talked about on the podcast and I used to be questioning if there was a purpose why. If it is a newer product, if it’s simply getting traction or if this product is absolute junk, I don’t know. So I’m asking what situations would this make sense for somebody to make use of and when and would it not not make sense?

David Greene:
All proper, Chris, thanks for that query. Respect it. My recommendation could be, no, I don’t assume it’s best to tackle a house fairness settlement except you’re in dire monetary straits. And even if you’re, I’d in all probability choose that you just bought the home, took your fairness and moved on to one thing else. All proper, our final query goes to return from Nick Lynch and it’s a video query.

Nick Lynch:
Hey David, that is Nick Lynch from Sacramento, California. Thanks for every little thing that you just and BiggerPockets do. I like you man’s content material. I’m hoping to purchase my first residence within the better Sacramento space of California when my present lease ends April thirtieth of 2024. My query for you is what could be the very best technique to get in to my first residence and into investing on the identical time, given how excessive the costs are in California. I’m contemplating home hacking, home hopping, or just shopping for a major residence I’m snug residing in long-term and utilizing the rest of the fund that may have after a down fee to possibly put money into out-of-state property that might capital extra simply.
My largest concern with home hacking or home hopping in California, that the property is so costly, it will take a really giant down fee to get these properties to money circulate even after residing in them for a few years. Thanks, David. Respect the assistance.

David Greene:
All proper, Nick, glad you reached out. We really do lots of enterprise within the David Greene crew within the Sacramento space, and we assist individuals with stuff like this on a regular basis. The important thing to deal with hacking just isn’t about paying the mortgage down or shopping for an inexpensive residence. The important thing to deal with hacking efficiently, and by that I imply transferring out of it and having it money for later. What I typically name the sneaky rental tactic as a result of you may get a rental property for five% down or three level a half p.c down as an alternative of 20% down if you happen to stay in it first, is discovering an precise property with a flooring plan that may work. We’ve helped shoppers do that by shopping for properties with a excessive bed room and loo depend as a result of that’s extra items that they will create to generate income.
We’ve additionally had those who we’ve helped doing this after they hire out a part of the house as a short-term rental or a flooring plan that may be moved round the place partitions are added to create multiple unit within the property itself. The hot button is to not give attention to the bills and protecting them low, however to give attention to the earnings and getting it excessive. So while you’re searching for the property, what you actually wish to do is search for a flooring plan that both has lots of bedrooms and bogs and has ample parking and can also be in an space that folks wish to hire from, otherwise you wish to search for a flooring plan the place the basement that you might stay in and also you hire out possibly two items above or two items above and it has an ADU.
One thing the place you may get way more income coming in on the property which you’ve got extra management over. I name that compelled cashflow than a property that you just simply purchased at a cheaper price as a result of that’s not lifelike. When you’re making an attempt to purchase in a excessive appreciation market like Northern California the place wages are excessive and the market is robust, you might be much less prone to discover a low-cost home. Attain out to me immediately and I’ll see if we might help you with that and begin taking a look at properties with essentially the most sq. footage after which, asking your self, how may I manipulate and maneuver the sq. footage to the place this might be home hack. Nice query although, and I want you the very best in your endeavors.
All proper, everybody that’s Seeing Greene for immediately, I so admire you being right here with me and giving me your consideration and permitting me to assist educate you on actual property investing and rising wealth by means of actual property as a result of I’m obsessed with it and I like you guys. I actually hope I used to be in a position to assist a few of you courageous souls who took the motion and ask me the questions that I used to be in a position to reply for everybody else. And I sit up for answering extra of your questions. Go to biggerpockets.com/david and submit your query to be on Seeing Greene. Hope you guys loved immediately’s present and I’ll see you on the following episode of Seeing Greene.